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Friday, 14 May 2010 03:48

The beauty of third-dynamic auditing is no single individual has to do it all. No single individual can because it's a group engram we're running out.  

As a note, we are rapidly moving up the conditions as a group. The group itself is finding its feet, becoming aware, and coming into a powerful existence of its own.

While many of us have been in Scientology for years as individuals, the group itself has been slumbering. Perhaps that's why we missed -- as Flying Fortress called it -- "the wolf in the hen house." The group had not yet come fully alive itself.

Well, all that is changing. The third dynamic of Scientology sleeps no more. As individuals, we are also waking up and finding it's great to be alive! But the biggest news of all, and the one that's been my personal focus, is the group.

We have many stellar individuals in Scientology. We have remarkable friends. They are heroes. But the purpose of Scientology-cult was not just to awaken the individuals of Scientology, but to awaken a SLEEPING GIANT: the real group of Scientology.

That is the greater body of which every individual is a part. An OT group. Intelligent. Discerning. Self-determined. With likes and dislikes. With judgment in place. And with real integrity, so it can't be fooled or lied to ever again.

That is the real game. As LRH says, a group has its own life. Shift over to the third dynamic and you can feel the power source that has come into existence.

None of us as individuals, and I mean none of us, can hold a candle to the capabilities, reach and power of our group.

As individuals and OTs we can do a lot. But the group itself: now THAT is unstoppable.

And on that score, take a look at the following photographs of the volcano that's been erupting in Iceland recently. Just to put the word "power" into perspective, here are some orders of magnitude. The shapes at the bottom -- those are mountains.



In my opinion, our group has moved above Non-Existence for the first time.

Take a look at the likes and dislikes of our group. If I may speak for that group, I think I can safely say we don't like rip off. We don't like being lied to. We don't like rhetoric or self-important personalities grabbing the spotlight. I daresay we don't like "Int events" (LRH forbid them in a 1978 issue that David Miscavige suppressed. Per LRH you are supposed to get your news through magazines).  We don't give a damn about showy mest because that isn't what Scientology is about. What makes Scientology so different is the ARC. We don't like brutality. We don't like abuse. We don't like Scientology being untrue to its own tenants. And most of all, we don't like dictators.

We like ARC. We like training. We like auditing. We like the knowledge. We like having the ability to decide for ourselves what is true for each one of us independently and we like having the freedom to reject what isn't true for any one of us.

We like real religious freedom and that includes the freedom to walk away from Scientology if anyone so chooses and still remain friends with people "inside." That is called tolerance.

We like LRH: the real LRH who was a man -- and like any other man he had faults. We don't care about his faults, because his faults have nothing to do with the workability of the technology.

We like affordable services. We hate a monopoly. We like freedom of choice.

We believe in fair exchange in alignment with getting technology applied as broadly and as with as many people as possible. Where prices inhibit that purpose, those prices are suppressive in our opinion.

We have our own opinions because WE EXIST. And forever and as long as we do exist, we will HAVE our own opinions about everything and no dictator has any right to dismiss our opinions. Our opinions and viewpoint are part of who we are because we exist.

Having a viewpoint, having an opinion... these things go hand in hand with EXISTING and BEING.

And that's the way it's always going to be.

And if some DICTATOR doesn't like it, then we will move him out of the way. Because this isn't about him. Scientology isn't about him. Scientology is about casting aside all those things that make decisions for you because that is what's wrong with you.

We DESPISE enforced disconnection. We DESPISE the action of declaring people suppressive who are not actually anti-social people.

We love the human race. We love this planet.

We think the universe is something beautiful.

We love Scientology.

And we love helping.




+1 # Guest 2010-05-14 03:44
And since you feel comfortable speaking for the group -- I'm gonna speak for SOME of the group --

We don't like the feeling others seem to be giving is that because they are now independent and have spoken out THEY are better than those who aren't, they might be tolerant but there is an air of arrogance.

That to me is the kernel that dug scientology into the hole it now finds itself.

That part of the human psyche (ego) that LIKES being just a step ABOVE their neighbor.

This loosely held together group (known as independent scientologists) is walking a sticky-wicket fence IMHO -- and without PERSONAL vigilance --

I think is going to find itself yet again, building a group of individuals who work hard to be just ONE step higher than the guy next to them.

So Thoughtful -- as brilliant as I've found your posts and heartwarming -- I think it's slowly dawning on me that your group isn't really going to ULTIMATELY be all that different unless at its core the individual members work harder to eliminate that " I'm better than you mentality".

I work at it every day. That mentality is in part what has buried all of us and helped to create war --- killing/harming another isn't all that hard IF you consider he/she isn't REALLY like you.

It's really all about equanimity. Extremely hard to accomplish but IMHO worth working for.

With a sad heart,
# Fellow Traveller 2010-05-14 04:10
"The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not.

And the true sign of sanity and greatness is to so continue.

For the one who can achieve this, there is abundant hope.

For those who cannot, there is only sorrow, hatred and despair. And these are not the things of which greatness or sanity or happiness are made.

A primary trap is to succumb to invitations to hate." LRH

With hopeful heart that we can achieve the aims of scientology, whether as scientologists or other well-meaning individuals.
+1 # Joe Howard 2010-05-14 04:11
I enjoy your posts immensely and would love to meet you one day. But I think you've missed Steve's point a little bit here, in my opinion. I don't find the "holier than thou" mentality you speak of in the indie movement. I agree there is the potential for that--and I realize that, as LRH wrote, domination and survival are going to remain part of the woof and warp of existence--but I personally haven't observed it yet.
Don't worry, WH. Be happy!
# Thoughtful 2010-05-14 04:30
Am I missing something? I said tolerance and love for the human race and you say some Indies are arrogant?

And the arrogance in the Church of Miscavige is not a "normal" part of the human psyche, it is DAVID MISCAVIGE. How do I know? Because I was heavily involved in Scientology in Dallas, Austin, Los Angeles before I went "uplines" and there was ZERO arrogance in these other locations. In fact, Scientology was the most NON arrogant group I'd ever met BY FAR.

Then, I went to the Int base in the summer of 1984. That place was ALL about and utterly about Arrogance and that stemmed directly from David Miscavige's direct orders to RTC and CMOI, etc. to not "mix" with lower orgs, to be "cold" -- he actually ordered people to do that. Miscavige is the poster boy for Arrogance.

That some people bought into his idiocies... maybe we can chalk it up to being young and inexperienced (stupid). But normal Scientologists are anything but arrogant, so the condition is very abnormal. Then again, there are always a few who have "self importance" as a button -- like Jenny DeVocht, Lisa Schroer, Brook Shackleton, Gary Weise.

So who are these others who are giving the feeling that they are better than others? The recognition that some people are PTS or out ethics for supporting DM -- that is not "arrogance" if that is what you are referring to. Arrogance is "having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance."
# Marta 2010-05-15 17:57
WH - I found the article so well written and quite inspirational. An, I agree with you that if the group maintains an elitist attitude (and consequent behaviors) it will just be same stuff different flavor. And, I also agree, it has to be worked on constantly, each time newly in a new unit of time, in every communication, action, etc. And I, personally, maintain hope for this because we have folks like you speaking up and speaking out.
+1 # ButterflyChaser 2010-05-14 05:04

Thank you so very much for posting this. It's beautiful. You are inspiring.

I also see, however, what WH is talking about and feel the same sadness. I feel uncomfortable posting on Marty's site because the tolerance level which seemed to be extremely high at the beginning, has gone down and solidified a bit. Initially, it felt like everyone was welcome in the tent. Now, I feel like I'm standing just outside of it in the shadows.

The new Indie movement will have to be very vigilant if it doesn't want to follow in the footsteps of its predecessor.

That being said - what you wrote, if it were actually to come into existence - would be a wonderful thing. It's what I thought I was signing up for to begin with! Oops!

Thanks, Steve, for everything you do - for your courage and intelligent writing on the subject. My deepest appreciation.
# Marta 2010-05-15 17:58
ButterflyChaser - If I might be so bold to request that whenever you feel "outside" at Marty's blog, then that's the very time your voice is needed. No doubt there are plenty others thinking just like you. I've felt that, too. Maybe every one of us has and does sometimes - it's a group after all, a dynamic thing. Sometimes things get so sickly sweet I playfully put my finger down my throat (no disrespect to the group, just honesty). On other sites sometimes there's way too much anger and bitterness, no room for "da love" at all. Please, speak up. Groups remain healthy only with diversity of viewpoints - true of any group. Without honesty and diversity of perspective, when voices go unheard, the group sinks into "group think" and goes stale.

Creating what Steve wrote about is something each of us has to Be and Do in order to Have, in an on-going creativity - IMHO.
# Guest 2010-05-16 17:13
Thanks, Marta. You are absolutely right, of course.
I will speak up more often as I completely agree that "honesty and diversity of perspective" is the only way this thing is going to shake out in a positive way. Thanks for that! XO
-1 # Idle Org 2010-05-14 05:56
I was at Amy's book release party on Sunday. I was surrounded by OT's, Sea Org veterans, former management terminals, etc.

Not an arrogant one in the bunch!

I had a cog that "This is what OT's are really supposed to be like!"

When in the church, I had never seen people being as free, no matter their credentials.

The point is, as Thoughtful said, without DM directly on the lines, you get SANITY!

Sure, there are always going to be leaders in any group. It's absolutely necessary. But, in a sane group, if the leadership goes a bit "too far", the group members will put them right, quickly. It's basic KR tech.

Under a guy like DM, going "too far" is rewarded!

WH, I also believe that your comm to Thoughtful was handled in a fairly down-tone, invalidative way. It's unnecessary. You may consider taking a minute to review your work before sending it out to all of us great, uptone people. IMHO

Idle Org
+1 # Idle Org 2010-05-14 06:36
I'll be a space-hog and make another comment...

I've not personally noticed Marty's site being "solid" at all. Thank God he's doing what he's doing!

Two things to keep in mind:

1. Face-to-face comm is far superior to written words on a computer screen. It's easy to mis-dup one another in writing. I've had an "argument" with somebody on email, yet, once we were talking in person (or even on the phone), we realized that things were just fine between us. And that, I believe, will be the case whenever and wherever our individual indie members do actually run into each other, face to face. What they thought were "arguments" will be easily remedied in about ten seconds with real communication.

2. Steve and Marty have a certain FOCUS they are going for. To take out DM! When that piece of insanity is deposed, the "arrogance", brutality, force, etc, will be so miniscule, a simple, one-paragraph KR will completely handle it. The side-benefit is that these sites serve as de-stimulators for all of us. Without them, I'd be so confused and lost regarding my "church" right now, I can't even believe it. "Is the church bad? Am I bad? What's wrong with the church? Am I bad for thinking bad things about the church? Maybe I'd better donate more money for thinking bad things about the church!" And on and on and on......

Hey, sounds like a DM tactic to me! :-)
-1 # Thoughtful 2010-05-14 07:21
This is very true. I saw a Google Alert for something on a blog on Ex-Scn yesterday. I don't read it because for the most part it is entheta, and is owned by OSA.

But someone said that the field breaks down into people who think "DM is cause" and people who think "LRH is cause." I'm sorry but this guy is either a freaking idiot or he's OSA.

We are focused on DM because DM (loosely stated) is the WHY. The Why OPENS THE DOOR TO A HANDLING. Believe it or not, "Cause" is utterly beside the point.

Let me give a comparative to illustrate:

You come upon a car accident late at night. A car has flipped over and pinned a moaning child under the wreckage. The car is leaking gas and smoke is rising from the motor.

Time bomb.

You try to lift the car, but it is too heavy.

Finally some other motorists stop and you tell them to help you lift the car -- the only way to free the child.

Instead of helping, one of them starts talking about the "cause" of the accident. "Wait," he says, "the 'cause' is the mother didn't make the child wear a seat belt!" He points to a mangled torso, what's left of the mother, who is plainly and obviously DEAD.

"Come on, let's lift!" you shout.

"Hang on!" says the idiot. "I'm very worried about you. I said we've got to handle the cause of the accident you see." Now, pointing to you, he tells your would-be lifting team that you think the car caused the accident. Unbelievably some of your helpers nod in agreement, and go over to the brain-dead idiot to hear him out. While the child lies dying.

The WHY opens the door to a handling. In this case, the car is pinning the boy. Handling: get some guys and roll the car off.

Now maybe AFTER we lift the car and free the boy we will want to retire some contra-survival policies to close the door on unworkable tech, including anything that makes it okay for Church to violate its own Creed and philosophy. Of course, such REVIEW and CORRECTION will need to happen, in time. It's part of the org board itself.

But if enough people don't help LIFT it won't be possible to correct anything because until DM is deposed NO OTHER HANDLING IS EVEN POSSIBLE.

So as Idle Org has correctly stated, some of us ARE focused on the task at hand. And I for one, tend to withhold communications that would clearly just confuse people. Like pointless jibber-jabber about LRH as the cause. He's dead! He's not even here! Who IS here is contaminating up the scene so badly if we don't act fast nothing will be left.

+1 # Another Layer - Thoughful Spa 2010-05-15 18:01
Yes, yes, and more yes! That is one precisely perfect comparison.

All thanks to Steve, Geir, Marty and Mosey, Mr. Rinder, FZ, Anonymous, the Indie 500, everyone's families, Old Auditor, Fellow Traveler, Lunamoth, Veritas, Sam, and everyone else--most of you I've never met, but every day your posts locate another piece of sanity that I'd thought had vanished.

Forgive a generality and a diversion from this thread, but this whole independent movement just rehabs like mad the reasons I started in Scientology. Very happy.
# Karen 2010-05-16 07:22
Welcome home, Another Layer. Your needle is floating. That's great!

That is Scientology!
# heather g 2010-05-16 17:44
I'm sorry but this guy is either a freaking idiot or he's OSA.

What happened to tolerance, Steve?
# Thoughtful 2010-05-18 03:53
Hi Heather, My honest answer is that I think you have "tolerance" mixed up with being "docile" or "permissive" or something.

When I say tolerant, I am saying people's religious beliefs are their own business and play no part in "who I'm going to be friends with." Can you imagine two kids at school and one kid says, "Well, my family used to be Methodists but now we are Baptists" and the other kid says, "Oh, well then I can't be friends with you."

Can you imagine two businessmen saying that at a conference?

Or two people on facebook and one says, "I see some of your friends are ex-Episcopalians. Those people are not my friends. You need to take them off your facebook or else I'm going to have to disconnect from you."

I reserve the right to be blunt about what I perceive as destructive acts.

Does that make me intolerant? No. I am outspoken, for sure. And maybe I am being rude. Maybe I'm being impatient. That is something I'd like "to work on."

But after 25 years of seeing things that were crazy in the CoS and biting my tongue, or having to justify it somehow... I have learned that it's pointless to not have the courage to say what you observe.

I subscribe to the idea that people can speak their minds. They can counter, utter or write upon the opinions of others.

The guy I said is a "freaking idiot" I think he has the right to say whatever he wants to say. However, I then have the right to say whatever I want to say in response.

And may the man with the soundest idea win.

But note also I did not identify the fellow.

Bottom line: I don't mind anyone saying anything they want to me as long as they don't mind me saying whatever I want to them. That is a healthy, non-aberrative situation. It only gets messed up when someone is not allowed to respond.

Now you can fault me for being rude and you can fault me for being impatient and for those flaws I apologize.
# Tintin 2010-05-14 07:24
Quite refreshing to read about your wonderful and high ARC for SCN and the world around us.

During this turbulent times I sometimes tend to forget what the subject is all a about, so thanks for reminding me.

As for the power of the group, I think the only truly winning attitude in the long run is one of using the tech to make people free, with as little emphasize of the importance of the group itself as possible.

I´m sick and tired of the 180 degree reversed help flow where one as a public feels that the organisation needs help from you, when it should be the other way around. I´m convinced that this misconception is a 100 % guarantee for the tech NOT to work, since it put the orgs at effect when they should be at cause.

Anyway, since it is now clear that the problem stems from the upper echelon of scn management, no one has to wonder anymore what to do about it. There is only one solution: To demand DM and the rest of the senior management to resign.

I think it´s time to name the product and demand that David Miscavige:

1. Give an honest answer to the scn community with regards to the allegations about physical violence.


2.Resigns immediately

# windhorse 2010-05-14 07:24
Thoughtful -- honestly, I am sorry that my post was fired off as quickly as it was -- it wasn't mindful at all.

Over the past few days there have been several posts which in my mind were demonstrably arrogant. But perhaps we have different definitions or nuances for that word.

You mentioned coming from Dallas - surely it had to be after Dean Stokes and his wife Melanie who couldn't have been more arrogant if they tried. Although, Melanie away from Dean was a sweetheart.

But lets call it -- something else then.

Perhaps I can explain it better than with one word. I was shocked frankly to hear Mat call out to those who are not willing to go public as being cowards. One cannot possible know what is REALLY best for another person and to lump it all into one thing -- well -- that's silly.

What is Greatness is easy to read, hard to appy in the extreme. It requires the type of humility that I feel is VERY difficult for most of us - when I say arrogance perhaps it would have been better to say - lack of humility.

I was then shocked/saddened to see others take me to task and apparently miss my point entirely. And later to see Tom call those who had de-friended him and his wife (on FB) as SPs. When only the day before they were friends?

Your post seemed to me, in my already somewhat reactive mood, to be a heightening of the -- we, the indie movement are going to save the world. I particularly didn't like the word DESPISE as it is so tied in with hate/revenge etc.

Yet underscoring all of this is perhaps my own singular mantra -- the one which I will change somewhat to fit my life and I hope Dr. King will not mind:

"I have a dream that my future grandchildren will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by which form of scientology or none their grandmother follows but by the content of her character."

Again, I do apologize for any upsets caused.

# Thoughtful 2010-05-14 13:36
WH, No apology from you is necessary at all.

Taking a step back, remember "as order goes in, confusion blows off." We are ALL going to get confused at times as we move through this process. But we have multiple, relatively-free, two-way-communication lines in which to sort out the confusions.

When you come out and all your friends disconnect, it is very disheartening and at best it strikes at the Code of Honor. It can feel somewhat lonely when you are the only one who steps across the line and everyone else takes a step backwards. You say, "I thought these people were my comrades?"

The fact is, it IS a PTS situation. And certain people have taken a step forward to do what is right despite everything and no matter the cost. Like Mike Rinder.

Mine was easier, but still I lost friends when I went public. It's only natural to be a bit upset by that. But I'd take them back in a heartbeat.

The main point is, if everyone decided to come out, we could break the back of disconnection tomorrow. Just like that.

Instead, some do what is right, and others don't, which leaves some of us out there dangling in the wind.

I can see both sides.

The thing to do is ignore the confusion that is blowing off, and keep putting in order any way you can. And all will come right.

# windhorse 2010-05-15 18:00
Stephen -- each of us have our "war stories" -- and each I'm sure are terrifically painful to us.

Every scientologist I knew, either as a friend or acquaintance except for less than a handful turned their back -- dangling in the wind? I was thrown to the 4 winds ...

And as I fought to piece my mind and then my life back together, I have worked to put it back in a different way. Dismantling as much as I humanly can of shadow sides (reactive?) of my self.

It has often been said by other philosophies that those we encounter act as mirrors to us. It's a great tool.

For us to have IN our lives someone has nuts as dm, as cruel and as heartless -- using him as a MIRROR we might see that indeed while we are NOT dm -- we have elements of him; otherwise, he wouldn't BE in our lives.

Granted this isn't scientology philosophy but it sure has helped me with the old "similars of my own" --- I look to see WHAT is being shown in this mirror ...

Also - I really think your point about confusion blowing off is something to remember -- as well as the car accident story.

I just got jumpy when it appeared that those being allowed to flip over the car to save the young child, were being vetted or basically ordered to do it their way ...

(sometimes my past, is still rather raw - no matter how long it ago it was)

# Thoughtful 2010-05-16 23:44
Windhorse, I totally understand. It's a bad situation we are dealing with and the handling isn't always smooth. Plus, due to limitations on my time, I am not always able to supply as much communication as is really needed to explain where I'm coming from. That kind of communication is vital, to fill the vacuum and supply reality. It's not your fault or anyone's really. It's just not a perfect solution that we have going forward... or at least you can say it's a bit rough around the edges. :-)

And on the subject of betrayal, as in getting thrown to the four winds, yeah, I know it's been very rough for some people.

In my case, I asked my ex-wife in 1998, when I was at an all time low if I left would she want to come with me? The result was she wrote me up in a KR which of course landed me in hot water.

That was the last time I tried to venture out on that thin freaking ice. And as far as I am concerned, that is what sealed her fate to remain there at Int once I finally decided to leave.

However, I want to point out that I didn't leave for another six years. And in that six years I got up the confront to face leaving.

So I had some time to prepare for the worst is what I'm saying. I know many others did not have that kind of time to prepare and just got their lives suddenly demolished. I don't know your specifics, of course, but I want to communicate my empathy for what you went through.

As for healing, I found Viktor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning" most helpful. He, having just lived through 4 Nazi death camps, and having written the book in 1946.

What he says in that book is that it is up to each person to devise the next chapter that makes all they went through worthwhile somehow.

For me, that meant using what I experienced and know to turn the tide on DM and recover Scientology to sanity if we can. What I did, plus what many others are doing, has given rise to the indie movement and you know... I do feel that if I had not had gone through all those years of hell, I wouldn't be able to have this even greater game today. So in that way, I don't feel my life was wasted. Sure, like anyone I definitely have my regrets. And I still feel badly about some of the losses. But, that's life, too. And balancing the losses is the great stuff, the exciting, the new friends, and the rewards of knowing I am helping people today -- and doing it entirely on my own terms. I LOVE what I am doing today.

I don't know where it is all going to end up. But, as I've learned -- the road to all good things starts by following your "intuition" or knowingness. We don't always know how things are going to work out, but what we CAN know is which is the right path.

When you get onto the right path, many good indicators come into play. In past centuries they called those good indicators "omens" I think.

But since leaving staff, I learned to follow my intuition and I watch what indicators appear.

Here's an example. I made the decision to start this website, and the next day a business I own called BreakThruDesigns.com got our biggest job ever from HBO.

Two weeks later on a Friday, the job started to falter, someone decided they wanted to reduce the size of the order by half! Red alert! I realized I had been so busy with that order that I hadn't done anything with Scientology-cult for two weeks. So I jumped back on that over the weekend and got a ton of stuff done. Result, Monday morning I got word they changed their mind again and decided to go with the original plan.

I call those "good indicators." We are used to recognizing "good indicators" in auditing session, but there are also good indicators on any dynamic.

The reverse side of this is bad indicators and that was ALL I ever saw for the last six years at Int. I did NOT follow my intuition and as a result, everything that could go wrong did go wrong and worse.

Anyway, it leaves me wondering how you might be able to turn all the bad experiences you've had to your advantage.

As LRH said in the old Dianetics Jingle from 1951, "Motion comes in, use and win."

# Linda 2010-05-15 17:53
No apologies necessary, but I do not, nor does Tom have the idea that people who disconnected from us are SPs. Just don't think that way at all. His daughter, my son and his family, my former dedicated S.O. member friends are not SP. Not even close - the only thing I wished to point out is that people who disconnect won't LOOK. They base their disconnect on current church dictates. They feel their eternity is threatened by being hooked up with me. They are afraid to look and that is, factually disappointing - because it's keeping them in the very clutches of what we are trying to handle. Hope this explains it.
# windhorse 2010-05-16 03:11
Linda and Tom - thanks for the correction of my assumption that the FB "friends" were friends, but acquaintances.

And true enough -- people INSIDE do not look. Which is rather startling considering the philosophy of LRH - but, it's become indeed what we railed against in the early days -- a cult.

And cult members cannot look, will not look and therefore remain within a cult.

Trust me when I say - I find the whole thing immeasurably frustrating as well -- maddening in fact.

As Steve so aptly pointed out -- when order goes in, confusion blows off.

Again, thanks for the setting me straight on your "friends"

# Allen Stanfield 2010-09-11 05:08
I understood exactly what you meant, WH.

What you comment on exists, right there for everyone to see.

Ideologies must be defended at all costs. They must always be true, and must never cause anything negative like the arrogance of ideologues.
# Linda 2010-05-14 07:38
That post was better than drinking fine wine. It rolled across my senses. It's just the truth and not a line of it was "odd", "arrogant", "twisted" or any other synonym.
We are gearing up, and planning and readying ourselves to return Scientology to freedom. We are actually recruiting and assigning who is going to go where, or do what based on their capabilities, their willingness, their talent, whether their "in" or "out" etc etc. The only people that we don't "want" are people that are truly suppressive - because no matter where an SP goes, or what he/she does, or who he or she is connected to is a target that the SP must destroy. LRH says in HCO PL The Responsibility of Leaders (aka Simon Bolivar)
"It is a frightening level of bravery to use men you know can be cruel, vicious and incompetent." May seem like an odd quote, but the point is that we are brave. That's not to say we are sitting in judgment of ANYONE (except the SP who now and again rears his/her/their ugly head. LRH has pointed out the mistakes that Simon Boliver made so we do not repeat the same mistakes. Boliver was arrogant beyond comprehension and it killed him. We won't make that mistake.
# Marta 2010-05-15 17:58
Linda, you wrote

"LRH has pointed out the mistakes that Simon Bolivar made so we do not repeat the same mistakes. Bolivar was arrogant beyond comprehension and it killed him. We won't make that mistake."

I appreciate your certainty and confidence, very much. I remain hopeful and intentional about the future. Respectfully, I temper the above with the word "again" at the end (make that mistake again), since 'we' already did it once this go 'round and are quite busy "getting him" right now.
# Linda 2010-05-16 16:10
# Bryon 2010-05-14 08:59
I definitely like ARC, and KRC, and Scio, or knowing in the full sense of the word. Too bad those things seem to be long gone within the Church. Time to bring them back.
# Henk 2010-05-14 09:12
Thank you Thoughtful.

Very beautiful!
I fully agree with you.
# Theo Sismanides 2010-05-15 01:55
Indeed we are giants, not arrogant though, since there can be benevolent giants too. people have just seen to many evil and bad giants so they are afraid of giants anyway.

What will help us tremendously is to find back our Admin Tech and paths. Through the Org Board and organizing we could be present on every social media and get reach of a hell of a lot of new people like there are on Facebook and get them to realize that they can do something about the suppressives.

Greece now has the IMF here. The one worlders as LRH called them. We, the independents can do something about many things IF we organize our group.

Steve, thanks for keeping up the spirit. We are moving ahead.
# Virgil Samms 2010-05-15 17:55
WH - No one is going to be condescending anyone. And you didn't get what I meant on my post. I said acquaintances were currently working on burying me and I'm thinking that they might be SPs. I didn't say these 2 were close friends. They weren't. And now I know why I kept my distance from them all along. What they are doing now is disgraceful. But I will handle them just like I have in the past.

When I was first working on staff I was kind to everyone I met. Even when a guy came into the org and told me that he wanted to see Dianetics dead. I sat him down and found out what his beef was. Did I throw him to the wolves? No, I handled him and he went on to be an auditor.

However, later on in my Sea Org career I found out that hate was the only way to conduct business and I blew that place. I tried to resurrect ARC later in PAC and was chased out by Jenny DeVocht. Now we have a chance to get Scientology back and we are not going to allow hate and ugliness back in. No, no, no. Not going to happen. All you have to do, from your zone of influence is to make sure Scientology is applied per LRH.

Steve: I love your post. Marvelous. as Yokimoto said after he bombed Pearl Harbor: "I am afraid we have woken a sleeping giant and filled it with resolve."

With each slap, with each punch, with each kick DM woke the sleeping giant.

And then he hit Heber...

ML Tom
# Marta 2010-05-15 17:57
Tears and laughter, Steve. Hat in the air! Thank you.
# Rush 2010-05-15 18:02
I feel you've put into words how I feel as an independent. Thank you!

# Brad Hagemo 2010-05-15 18:06
Thank you for another brilliant post. Like false data stripping, truth goes in to handle confusion. I had some thoughts I wanted to share if I may. LRH provided us with Admin and Ethics tech so that we could form and maintain a group where the bank did not dominate. Failure to hold these lines in has produced a rogue Church of Miscarriage which is causing havoc and mayhem in the Scientology community which we have all been committed to and hold dear.

Those of us who knew something was wrong and decided to "look don't listen", applied the doubt formula and concluded that the source of all the out-points and PTSness was none other than the "enslaver in chief" David Miscarriage. I for one relied on my own observations as well as data I received from other independents who went before me and set up web sites to facilitate communication.

This in no way means that I and other Independents are smarter or more perceptive than other Scientolgists who feel the need to stay. I for one applaud anyone who is committed to forwarding the aims of Scientology. I do believe however that it is important to to take an honest look at the actual statistics of the group one supports and not simply accept verbal reports of highest ever.

In my case it took several months to handle a dangerous situation before my wife and I could declare our independence. We had a daughter in the TTC at Flag at the time and had to get her home first so that we did not loose her to the cult-like indoctrination program which exists there.

To those of you who still face the danger of loosing family, I wish you well and will continue to support any group which brings ethics pressure to bear on the Church.

As the Independent group moves up the conditions I have no doubt that we will be formidable. With leadership coming from OT's such as yourself and a growing membership of battle hardened veterans, we can get people moving up the grade chart again which is what this game is all about. I for one do not want to waste another minute of my time thinking about DM and his pathetic band of boot-licking, RTC sycophants.
# Karen 2010-05-15 18:08
One of the things I like most about the independent movement is the ability to express oneself without being guarded.

After leaving the church it took me some time to express my viewpoint about things. I was so regimented in not discussing case, disagreements, backflash, etc. that I found myself not originating anything that was opposing in any way. When I did try it, it seemed foreign and I felt that I was nattering when I was only expressing an opinion. In fact, it was my first step back into my own beingness. I eventually became comfortable with my own viewpoint.

I also realized that there are many other viewpoints out there as well. I found I could agree, disagree or alter those viewpoints I wanted to interchange with and that the degree of ARC varied as a result. I also found I could disagree with a particular idea expressed of a viewpoint and still maintain the ARC as a whole. To me, this is interest.

There are many viewpoints being expressed on these blogs. What keeps me here is the main general purpose behind them.

I did not have the experience that many "coming out" did. I had already been declared and I hadn't talked to any "friends" in years. Since coming out I have reestablished several comm lines. Although I had already made my decision to leave the church it has been an extra bonus that my comm lines expanded more AFTER going public.

Great post, Thoughtful!
# Guest 2010-05-16 20:13

This is wonderful. I'm glad that you've experienced this. I welcome hearing more of your
opinions and how they differ from mine : )
(or not, just sayin'...)


# lunamoth 2010-05-15 18:10
Idle Org,

Please read this in a new unit of time:

You may consider taking a minute to review
your work before sending it out to all of us
great, uptone people. IMHO

Now, I've read your posts for many months, and I would not describe you as arrogant, in fact, I really like you. I'm pretty sure you didn't feel what you wrote was arrogant. But do you see anything in that last comm of yours that could be construed as such? Just take a look and decide for yourself.


+1 # lunamoth 2010-05-15 18:11

This was beautiful beyond words. It actually moved me to tears. You have a way of creating the most inspiring images and realities in your writing.

I didn't personally find a particle of arrogance in this expression, but WINDHORSE, I really do duplicate what you said. I've felt it, too, that feeling of being made less by a blanket, generality, because you are not"out" to the same degree as others. Well, to each his own. I can see the truth in the viewpoint they express, but I also see the choice of how it's expressed sometimes as a serv-fac. The sense of long-suffering, nobility, holier-than-thou that the comm can sometimes contain (and obviously,
Thoughtful's comments here on that subject do NOT fit this example) is a real test of my affinity for the indies and their cause.

And I say "their cause", because it's not my personal cause to re-establish a church, or a sea org, or any of the structures that have composed the c of m or even the c of s. That's something that separates us. But I think what
connects us is much more important because those things are simply intrinsic to a being, and those things were expressed beautifully in Thoughtful's post, above.
# Mockingbird6 2010-05-15 21:29
I appreciated WH's comment because it is easy to get that feeling of being better than others and I have seen some people whose only reason for doing Scientology was to stay a level above others. So it's not unreal to sound an alarm about this.

However, since exiting and DPTSing I have found my tolerance level increasing a lot. I no longer think of "those guys outside" in derogatory terms. I can see lots of different people with lots of different viewpoints instead of just the "right" viewpoint and the "wrong" viewpoint.

There will always be people with "attitude." I do hope we will all be aware of what WH is talking about and not fall into that trap again.

With much love, M6
# Idle Org 2010-05-16 00:39

Appreciated and accepted. :-)

On another note, I sent the following link to Joe Howard, who enjoyed it enough to suggest I share it on Marty's blog.

I thought I'd share it with everyone here as well.

If you are at all creative, working in the aesthetic band, you'll treasure it.

It aligns with much of what I've read by LRH on the subject of ART.

It's quite a key-out.

And it even pokes fun of ADHD and medication, putting them in their proper place.


# lunamoth 2010-05-17 09:05

Yes! I loved this!(for some reason I couldn't get this link to work, but I've seen this talk by Sir Ken Robinson a the TED conference). Thank you for the reminder.

We are definitely on the same page. : )

# David St Lawrence 2010-05-18 01:50
I remember a third dynamic of scientologists whose primary purpose was going free as individuals and helping others do the same. We had sky-high dreams but we were not aware of our condition as a group.

(Ft Lauderdale Mission and Miami Org mid-late Seventies)

I saw the cancer of a militant priesthood (the Sea Org) spreading fear and uncertainty through the formerly high ARC mission network. Enforced can't-have, enforced non-communication, and enforced contribution to the group slowly but surely strangled the last vestiges of a real Third Dynamic among Scientology public. We had to be careful who we talked to, what we said and what we thought.

Now we are exterior to and almost free of the middle class PTSness of the church of scientology. We are becoming aware of ourselves as a group with a commonality of purposes, a common enemy, and we communicate freely amongst ourselves about anything and everything.

I would estimate that some of us are well into a condition of Non-Existence as a group but we still need to determine what is needed and wanted for us to survive as a coherent third dynamic. We may not all choose to speak with one voice and that is as it should be if we really have different goals.

At some point we will have to answer the question of whether a priesthood, militant or otherwise, is what we want to see in our future. I feel it is a vestige of the old command and control mentality that surfaced in the mid-sixties and should be laid permanently to rest.

I have observed that the open connectivity of the Internet has allowed independents to successfully run out group engrams which is a feat that the church was unable to achieve except in rare instances.

I think our future lies in open communication between all levels of independent practitioners and groups. This implies a network solution for delivery of services and training instead of a central org structure, but I feel that open communication will lead to a workable solution to support the goals and activities of this new Third Dynamic of Independents.

On the other hand, the span of activities and purposes may be so great as to result in the creation of several, or many, interconnected Third Dynamics.

As long as there are some with the primary purpose of going free as individuals and helping others do the same, I will feel we are on the right track.

We live in interesting times... :-)
# Foremost 2010-06-11 06:09
*** --- 1. Face-to-face comm is far superior to written words on a computer screen. It's easy to mis-dup one another in writing. I've had an "argument" with somebody on email, yet, once we were talking in person (or even on the phone), we realized that things were just fine between us. --- ***

^^^ That point cannot be emphasized enough.

*** --- We don't like the feeling others seem to be giving is that because they are now independent and have spoken out THEY are better than those who aren't, they might be tolerant but there is an air of arrogance. --- ***

^^^ That's an out-ARC individual thing, although a group can go into such a valence too. Witness DM & cohorts. Nonetheless, those in need of such ego-trips are always out-comm and have other agendas in the background. Its unfortunate the group often inherits the "dirtbag" label for the shortcomings of a few.

One cannot possibly fall into such a mold if one unselfishly seeks to help others.

*** --- I feel uncomfortable posting on Marty's site because the tolerance level which seemed to be extremely high at the beginning, has gone down and solidified a bit. Initially, it felt like everyone was welcome in the tent. Now, I feel like I'm standing just outside of it in the shadows. --- ***

^^^ Bad indicator when the OP of a Thread cannot even be bothered to respond to perfectly valid queries. That's DM-bot stuff, not in-comm scientology conduct, and undermines himself by not garnering all the possible support he could harness. LRH always handled his comm.
# Thoughtful 2010-05-18 10:50
If anyone is faulting Marty for not answering, just look at his traffic load. He's receiving between 100 or more comments a day -- each of which he has to read, plus surely dozens of emails, plus his phone rings constantly (friends, pcs, journalists) plus he audits people every day. Hell, just writing this I remembered a journalist wrote to me several days ago and I've forgotten to answer. New traffic QUICKLY buries old traffic. Even traffic I flag for "follow up" gets buried if I am not vigilant.

Even with this website I could easily do nothing 7 days a week but handle my traffic. Every few minutes someone posts a new comment and I read every one.

It's an honor and there's nothing more exciting, but it takes a lot of time! Frankly, I don't know how Marty does it. But if he doesn't answer an email, or I get one sentence answer, I know he's just busy.

I mean just auditing itself requires C/Sing and preparation.

Marty is doing an incredible job in my opinion.

Sometimes the newbies ask questions that have already been answered in an earlier article. Those are the ones that probably get the least attention. But it's not because of "arrogance."

Just overload.

The solution is for all of us to just keep putting in order. That is how you overset a confusion.

Hope this helps.

# Axiom38 2010-07-04 16:14
"Asserting ones own importance is about as acceptable as a dead cat at a wedding." LRH

Miscavige is all about self importance.
"Hi I'm John Doe,Patron Superfluous of the IAS and Humongous Dominatrix of the Superpower Project!""Oh I see you are just a lowly Org course sup who has been on staff 30 years,pffft"
Yes Miscavige loves to push the self importance button and many fall for it,but don't assume all Scientologists are like that as most aren't,and those that are, are missapplying the tech.

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